Interview with Bruce Simpson founding partner at SwitchGear Consulting
In Episode 8 of the Mad Profit Podcast, I sit with Bruce Simpson, founding partner at SwitchGear Consulting (http://switchgear.ca/) which helps organizations implement strategic change to make them world class.
Bruce shares the importance of Tribes for an entrepreneur’s success. Having been a part of Virtacore (https://www.virtacore.ca/) for decades, he speaks from first-hand experience on the value these networks provide to organization, and members.
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| Intro: Welcome to the Mad Profit podcast, where we interview active investors, entrepreneurs and experts who left corporate jobs to buy or start successful ventures and live life on their own terms. Listen to their stories, learn from their experiences and heed their advice. So, you too can create mad profits and the life you’ve always wanted and now here’s your host Laurent Truc everybody and welcome back. Laurent: This is Laurent true from the mad profit podcast and I am excited to have a special guest today with us Bruce Simpson, founder of switchgear consulting. Bruce how are you today? Bruce: I am fantastic. How are you? Laurent: Good thank you so much for making the time and joining us. I’m looking forward to this, you’ve spent a lot of time working with entrepreneurs and networking and all that. So I really want to learn a lot from you and pick your brain and see what comes from this conversation. Bruce: I humbly hope I can offer some value in the dialogue. Laurent: Ha-ha, I’m sure you will, great! So, Bruce can you give us a little bit of background about yourself, where you come from, what got you here… Bruce: mm-hmm well without revealing my full age, I have an honours degree in biology, which naturally leads to large-scale change and entrepreneurial adventures. I think what I would fast-forward to… when I was at Bell Canada, was probably my big … and I ended up being part of the breakdown of long distance competition and I had joined the first wind back group at Bell Canada and you know going to customers to convince them the error of their ways and come back. We missed you and love you was by itself a big change initiative to get change to happen. I fell into some really great opportunities that nobody else wanted. Sometimes when they’re dressed in overalls they scare people off and so one of them was the build out of Bell Canada’s response to talking to customers that we hadn’t talked to before. Laurent: Okay Bruce: So we ended up building a whole bunch of call centers and we proactively wanted to talk to customers and in many ways that was new for us and in doing so one of the projects I ended up was analyzing the third-party call center market okay and I ended up getting a gift because I was paid to really try and understand how Bell Canada might actually play in a space or how we might outsource and partner with other companies to help some of our call centers at that time, now customer contact. And so you know myself and one other fellow ended up doing a detailed analysis and we ended up putting together a business plan to be not only we would answer the 800 number with a human being, we would we would be Bell Canada’s customer contact and they laughed at us because they were more focused on their core revenues that they were losing and they didn’t want to go into business with their customers, and so myself and another individual entrepreneur threw caution to the wind and borrowed seven and half-million dollars and started a company that became Citel international and client logic, and is now the second largest third-party outsourcing company in the world. And so along that journey I started to realize that there was lots of money for strategy, you know there was tons of money that everybody was getting a new deck, a new PowerPoint and a new strategy, but nobody was actually helping the little guy who was just trying to figure out how do we get better at what we do, how do we change and create change? And you know one day while you know my heads down on my desk crying, I envisioned being the copilot for somebody like Bruce, who you know started with two guys and seven and a half million dollars and eighteen months later you know is in charge of you know twenty five hundred employees and growing. Laurent: Wow! That is incredible. Bruce: So, we just caught a lucky trend that people were trying to… like the customer experience was starting to matter mm-hm and instead of you know how fast can you answer the phone and how fast can you get them off the phone, which is truthfully what people thought about. Now you know oh my gosh! We have to sell them something, we have to solve really complicated problems as all the simple work went away to you know being done on the web or on your phone. It’s become a really big thing, so when we sold the company to onyx as their entry point into customer service. We started another company called ins logic, okay and you should never have heard of ins logic, because it was sort of the Intel inside that allowed white labeled insurance companies like any company who was at the magic moment of insurance when you buy a home, before you get a mortgage you have to get insurance, when you buy a car you have to make sure that you have insurance. So, we built a company that would be the back end, that would allow Ford Insurance, Volvo Insurance, City mortgage insurance, any kind of key bank insurance to be able to have licensed agents and answer you know thank you for calling your brand insurance company. Laurent: Wow! And that was at the technology, infrastructure, the software, the people… Bruce: Everything! Laurent: Wow! that was full outsourced. Bruce: Everything so you know it was back end integration and legacy insurance companies databases. It was real time rating in engines, so that you could be able to rate and bind, so it gave you the economics of a direct writer, but the choice and benefits of a broker, but just with better economics. yeah and so the brand’s benefited and it was very sticky and we sold that company. Sold that company to Capital One as their way into everyone’s wallet…That was very nice. And then I set off on a mission to start switchgear, which was really just to be the kind of co-pilot for operational leaders, who are charged with you know solving world hunger and world peace, all on the same day and keeping the shop open. So, that’s what switchgears has done for the last 18 years mm-hmm and we’ve become very very refined, we’re not doing big strategy. I think sometimes you have to define what you don’t do and so rather than we’re gonna compete by doing more strategy documents. We actually climb inside the washing machine of customer-facing operations and like actually help them deal with all the change in chaos that’s coming at them. So, that’s what we do now. Laurent: And you are focused on every aspect of an entrepreneurs business or really just on the customer facing side sales, post sales, customer service? Bruce: Our target like years ago we used to have an offering that was really for entrepreneurs, it was really to be able to add service or professional services alongside of a technology, mm-hmm but most of our work has really become us as intrapreneurs helping large companies like you know large banks, such as telephone companies, large insurance companies to try and actually handle customer contact better than they do today. Excellent! Yeah so, that’s kind of where we and our bull’s eye, if you imagine that instead of it getting bigger like lots of companies, ours has actually got really really small. So, we don’t do certain things and I think that that’s the beauty of really good strategy, is it should do one thing really really well and to do that we arrive at you know kind of the dialogue around networks. Laurent: So, you and I met through a common friend who suggested I reach out to you because of the network that you were part of and you know as I started my entrepreneurial journey that was not the first thing on my list to do. I got to figure out a whole bunch of operational things, I got to kind of map out everything in my world before I network which was actually kind of counterintuitive for me as a sales guy, but I just didn’t think I’d have the time and after I met with you and some of the people in your group, I’m like ooh this is important, this is not just a now, this is an ongoing need. So, love your perspective to share your perspective a little bit on networking and the groups that you’ve been a part of. Bruce: So, first of all you and I met at a tribe… A tribe yes and I honestly believe there’s a difference, there’s… just like business has evolved I think there’s an evolution of networks and networking, that is you can start to see evolving really clearly. So how to get done all those things that you are trying to get done mm-hmm and not waste time, not rework and not misstep, because you can’t afford it. I think is kind of why you need a tribe and not just a network and so you know business today everyone’s talking about you know the pace and the complexity and I think for entrepreneurs or intrapreneurs and I’m going to use those two quite differently, because I often think that some of the best the best entrepreneurs just escaped from large companies you know case and at some point. You’re at your journey… Laurent: I would like to agree with that. Bruce: Ya know for sure, so I think it’s a really hard place and I think the playing field that an entrepreneur is supposed to be an expert on it’s very broad and and you can’t possibly have some of the expertise and everything from finance, operations, to you know how do I make sure that I don’t miss step on technologies. Yeah and so I feel like a what people are looking for in terms of I’ll call it a network is really, it’s really really important and I think you can’t do it early enough. Right the ability to have somebody who’s a trusted adviser mm-hmm part of a tribe of specialists to be able to call them up and say you know I need some roadside assistance and I have no clue what’s going on here are the three questions I’d love to start with. mm-hmm I think that’s a gift that you know isn’t about, hey I need the Glengarry, Glen Ross leads. Right which is oftentimes what people think about when they think about networks or networking yes and it’s you know to some extent, it’s a little bit facing towards you in terms of what you get from a network or a group of people or versus what you contribute and give to people first. Laurent: Excellent! So, can you actually talk a little bit about the different types of networking versus tribe groups that are out there? I’ve seen the BNI type of groups where you’re sharing leads, right and it seems to be very much about that or taking, tracking how many leads you give, how many leads you get type of stuff. There’s other types as well, what else is out there? Bruce: Yeah I think about the components which you know if you’re trying to pick up like what do I need personally, I think sometimes especially as an entrepreneur you know when 75% of the businesses fail because you can’t raise, you know you can’t generate revenue, you know a lot of them for an entrepreneur are around you know where the Glengarry Glen Ross leads and how do I get some revenue and some leads and for me I think oftentimes like I participated in several of those there whereas around both a BNI light as well as a Chamber of Commerce and some other business lead gen Tran forms and I really felt, I really felt they tried the short circuit and commoditize something I felt very strongly about and that was a relationship. I see this often on LinkedIn too – right where somebody approaches me because they want to sell to somebody else that you know they can see in my network or they know that I know mm-hmm and you know you need to have a lot of confidence in both ends of that introduction both hey I need to know this person. I have to be intimate with them, I have to understand the value and oh by the way if I’m going to introduce them to Laurent that I really need to know that it’s something that this person can add value and solve and that I’m not just you know sending somebody his way that I know is probably gonna try and sell him something he may not need. Sure! So that’s the first one for me as its kind of the starting point and I think lots of people start there in terms of their… I think about business associations or industry associations, where you’re representing the common good and you know I was born and raised in the customer contact area and the call center and so fighting becoming part of an industry association to fight the stigma that many people thought that a call center is the person that calls you at dinner hour just to sell you long distance that was their paradigm in there. So, I think there’s benefit to industry associations. I think of you know a version that is a community club like rotary or a Rotary International that has it contributes and serves you know with you know in a shared community and then I think about honestly there’s peer learning. Right, YPO or mckee forums where people who have like interests, similar kind of level or genre, but non-competing industries get together and they share, they talk about relevant topics and then I think probably further up the chain is his tribes and for me what differentiates them is that they are based typically on values. Okay and very clearly a give first mentality, the one that you and I met at was vertical, which you know stands for at the core the values of integrity, respect and Trust mm-hmm and so to allow somebody to get close enough to your problems to understand vulnerably your weaknesses, requires a lot of you know trust and respect and integrity. If you’re actually going to be able to help somebody and make a difference for you know for their business and then personally. So I think of tribes as a little bit of a you know people talk about leaning, I like to think of and you probably realized it a little bit an entrepreneur needs somebody to lean on. Laurent: Yeah for sure, I was very impressed with the group and to your point the openness about the entrepreneur’s challenges that they had. The one that I went to that I remember the most was an individual that was looking to expand his business and really had put a problem out there to the group and said you know I’m analyzing things like this, do I go into new markets? And the entire group spent an hour just carving up different ideas and ways for him to approach the problem and it was actually… How grateful he was incredible, the smile on his face when he left with just this whole new brain of views and different approaches that he can now take for his business was pretty Incredible. Bruce: Yeah, I mean it’s interesting we have this dialogue because in the news is somebody who just was successful in the Dragons Den of securing a fellow who was a vertical member for many years. Really you know built a product called up seat and a really fantastic value based guy who was solving a problem for his son and saw and recognized that there was a problem that lots of parents faced and so just the ability to be able to go you know hat in hand, very humbly say you know I don’t have this figured out. mmm-hmm I’m trying to pick a path; I need some input and you know that’s invaluable as opposed to you have all kinds of rework or you hit dead ends. And I just think that the everyone’s focused on you know grit and tenacity and those are big words right now and in start-up Window, but I also think that you know maybe if you didn’t have to pivot as hard by getting input earlier mm-hmm having somebody to say you know like we have a process at vertical called, roadside assistance. You can get a tank of gas or you know oh My God! I need a tow, and the ability to be able to put your hand up, and know that it’s going to be received by somebody who knows more about this than you do, and being able to do that to one individual or three you know roadside assistance, or a group of 40 which is what you saw when we ran a quorum. They’re like that’s a strategic advantage in life. Laurent: It is, I also found it impressive that first of all you have all different types of walks of life in the room, different types of business backgrounds and experiences and just being able to have that angle of view on your business from somebody in a different industry, in a different world that says have you thought of this? No matter how much help you get from other people your network is gonna be limited and you probably don’t know somebody who is a dentist or like something completely out of your norm provides views that you may not have thought of, and I think it’s incredible to see that dynamic take place. Bruce: Yeah and I think that you know there’s a little bit of the iceberg and you only see kind of the monthly meetings, but on a regular basis there is the roadside assistance which says you know at the risk of being vulnerable. I don’t have all the answers and in my work we’re in charge of solving big big nasty problems and transforming customers, organizations, that you know are facing their customers. Right so like we can’t pretend we have all the answers and so oftentimes I have to, you know I have to pull on a Laurent or somebody who you know I can blow their brain and if Trust is in the equation and there’s a mutual respect, then it’s incredibly how much value you walk away with. Laurent: Hmm very good. Where do you see kind of a mastermind group fitting in these different levels of tribes? like does it fall within the same kind of… Because I know a lot of mastermind groups have kind of a hotseat approach, somebody talks about a business problem. I don’t think they have this roadside assistance, let me call you up whenever I need kind of help. What’s your view on mastermind groups? Bruce: Well we… so I’m not going to comment so much on mastermind groups, we’ve like lots of things, we’ve figured out what works mm-hm by figuring out what doesn’t work and so you know have done, we used to run something called the innovators roundtable. Which is similar to vertical quorum and a quorum that you saw is picking a very focused problem to get everybody’s brains around. Right if you want to talk about finance and I want to talk about marketing and somebody else like zoning us in on one specific problem is probably step number one, like crafting a very specific question for someone to answer. Number two is preparation in advance. I know that you know, the pitch network and other places they really gravitate towards the encapsulation of the pitch, so that you can you know sell somebody some financing or something, and from my point of view I think that as much as I love Dragon’s Den, I think it has harmed entrepreneurs in some way, because putting yourself out there especially when you don’t have it figured out, it prevents a lot of people from refining really great ideas into something that would actually be magical. Hmm interesting! So like if the intent is that you’re trying to critique poke holes, and in many cases because it’s done publicly embarrass me. I feel like that the embrace of a network, a tribe, that is here, that is trying to give you maybe some tough love, maybe some you know choose path A versus path B, and here’s what I think you haven’t done yet that you need to do. I think that delivered in the right context is not only more helpful for the individual on the hot seat if you are, but it’s also far more beneficial, because you get to learn, you get to see yourself in the problem. There isn’t one vertical recession in twenty years that I haven’t walked away going, I learned something, I learned about my blind spot on this problem, I learned about somebody else had incredible contribution, and sometimes it’s the person that spoke the least. Had like you know oh by the way here’s the zinger question I just, I think you’ve missed. Right So from my point of view I think they’re all different and I think you have to figure out what do you want from it, yeah really needs. Laurent: Very interesting, So, if an entrepreneur is looking to join a group like this where do you recommend they start? like how do they find the group that fits best with what they’re looking for, with you know who they are? I’m sure personalities play a big part in this. Bruce: I’m gonna break … for me I think there is starter create then find in many ways and the reason I say that is, if you find good golfers to be around you’re gonna play better golf. Right so if you already know that you know Laron is a good golfer buy him a coffee, I think networking by definition we think is this scalable speed-dating, I’ll go and I’ll increase, you know quickly and so I don’t actually see it that way. I see it as Laron Bruce actually seem to have some shared values, we see some things very similarly and I want to help him and that’s kind of how it starts. You can have a let’s pretend for a moment, you can have a tribe of two with a common interest of wanting to make a difference to contribute and serve whatever is the manifest though that you don’t even need to write together. Yeah very interesting. So my first one would be – my first coaching would be don’t wait, hmm just you’ve met somebody you know at an event, at a dinner party,, at a just you know it’s probably the most common use for me of LinkedIn isn’t to ask somebody to sell. It’s to say hey could I get your opinion on or you know what you said online or you know when we met actually really resonated for me, could I grab the 15 minute virtual coffee, mm-hmm and just exchange some ideas on that, because I think it’s actually a big issue for me and my company or where I am, my development or whatever. Laurent: That’s very interesting. Yes, so you can get it from one on one networking, doesn’t know if it’s necessarily needs to be a formalized group. Bruce: Right and so I think that sometimes people first think about networking is this scalable speed-dating kind of thing. Yeah, I think about it in terms of its one-on-one relationships you just happen to have them many and so I think you can start your own. I think you and I think that the people belong, If they step back they actually belong to several tribes. Right I have a tribe that is an entrepreneurial tribe, I have a tribe that I lean on because solving customer contact problems for you know large companies means I don’t have all the answers. You know I have people that I just go and talk to who have deep experience on how to change really nasty ingrown beliefs, and just set ways of doing things that I just need time to talk about with them, and you know uh you know relationships grow from that, and you know you obviously reciprocate as a result of that, if you just take one way, it’s a pretty short networking group you’re gonna have. Yes, right so I think my first one would be, like I think you can actually start your own and I don’t think you need to wait, I think what people want from their network is what you need to think about first. Laurent: Mm-hmm is that how vertical was built, kind of small relationships that blew up over time? Bruce: Yeah you know what um how it started was a guy was laid off and in the process of thinking about what his next opportunity was from you know the entrepreneurial company that he’d been part of growing, mm-hmm you know he said it’s really not what I do now that matters, so much it’s actually more Who I do it with and somebody challenged them that said you don’t need to do that, you need to do that just at a job, mm-hm and so you know what? Tribe was born based on the values of integrity, respect and trust verdict core, at the core of its existence. So, it you know it kind of grew as a result of that and grew tentacles and you know has touched thousands of lives and companies trying to you know be a better version of themselves. Yeah that’s amazing and fun. Laurent: Yeah oh and I just love the different formats that you guys have, bringing guest speakers on topics that all entrepreneurs valued, you know the hotseat approach to figuring out problems it was a very very fun number of sessions that I’ve been to. Yeah thank you, Yeah that’s great, it’s great. So, one thing I asked all my guests especially somebody like you who’s worked with a number of different entrepreneurs and who has tried with different entrepreneurs. What are some of the resources that you would suggest to new entrepreneur leveraging as they kind of go off and start their business? Bruce: I think that for me that they may you start to hear the messages and the teachers teachings and I have a weekend study process that I take myself through just to keep trying to be relevant, and to just challenge myself, and so one of them is Seth Godin who wrote a book called Tribes and so Seth quite something this you know Seth quite some time ago really articulated you need to find your tribe. You know when you were in high school you know you may not have been the jock, you may not have been the computer science, you may have been the musical or theatrical group or the artistic group and so I feel like people need to, they just need to find where it feels like you belong, and Seth really helps in terms of this whole world now is powered by Tribes. Mm-hmm people trying to help each other as opposed to trying to go it alone. So, Seth you know both linchpin and tribes are regular revisits on my audio book tracks and so I would for sure point people towards that, because I think he actually defined the term for a generation of entrepreneurs when he started to clarify what tribes really meant. Mmm-hmm, so both tribes and linchpin would be one, but almost anything his newsletter is stark and naked and it’s a couple of lines of text and they don’t all resonate, but every now and then, it’s like is he stalking me? and it’s kind of helpful intransitive. Yeah kind of looking through that you know right now I feel like the heyday of the pitch, and the big idea is turning to the final mile between a problem worth solving and the execution capability that entrepreneurs have to actually deliver on, new funding models, how people are trying to retain. They have to get an MVP, and they have to prove a concept, you need somebody to reach in their pocket. When we borrowed 7 1/2 million dollars there was a flier. That’s right… we were like starting a call center company, meant you had to buy phone systems, and desks and take rent and it was a lot of money to spend there, and hope now like nobody would go about doing that, you have to actually convince somebody to reach in their pocket and give you money before somebody would say ok, yeah it’s not… they’re not just validating a good idea, they’re actually putting money down. so I believe there’s lots of books that help that actually weave in networking and entrepreneur-ism, and tribes as part of the core of how do you get an MVP to market? If you’ve read the Lean Startup mm-hmm right he talks about a user community and when you go to an MVP. I actually think that they’re like in there he also introduces the concept of going to experts who are aggregators of insights of many customer groups. Going to other people and saying please be mean to me and saying, you know I’m trying to figure this out, the you know Lean Startup is a fantastic one that actually if you think about it in the context of a tribe or networking you know actually is not just about any customers, it’s about aggregated insights from bright people. For me right now there’s two others that I would point to one is Rene Brown, whose work on vulnerability and shame is probably in my mind, some of the most significant for entrepreneurs who are not just being pitch men, but are trying to figure out how do they actually get something to get off the ground and be more than a proof of concept, and the whole concept. I’ve talked about a tribe of being able to go with your hat in hand saying you know Edie Hamish, you know Edna I’m just trying to figure this out, there’s a huge amount of vulnerability that I think that many entrepreneurs, they wouldn’t search for a tribe but they the vulnerability to actually get it right faster, requires a lot of vulnerability to be able to do and you would have seen some of that on display as people open up the kimono to all their problems at a group session. That is Tough, sure is really tough so I would say that Bernie Browns work for me in the last little while, has changed how I think about tribes and networks and then the last one that I would do which you know like everything you have to take it with a little bit of salt and and you may have to fast-forward during certain parts of the podcast. Hopefully not on this one of course, but the one for me that really sticks out a little bit is his tribe of mentors that is a podcast that is done by Tim Ferriss. He’s a little bit edgy, but he also talks in very plain succinct ways to back up, you know to back up good idea with something that is usually quite game-changing in terms of what you can pick up from there, there are so many others that I feel like that you have to look around. You exchange like hockey card, you exchange you know good podcasts with somebody for them to you know to put in the car when they’re you know driving to the cottage or you know just load on your iPod. For sure! You think away my age… Load on your iPod as you want to go for a walk right like so… Laurent: And that’s why I always ask because I am a huge podcast fan and I’ve been listening to them for a long time and yeah they’re just a wonderful way to get as much information while you’re stuck in wonderful Toronto traffic. Bruce: Yeah and I think sometimes you know it doesn’t need to be earth-shattering, you know I think about you know before I started a consulting business called switchgear, I didn’t want to be like everybody else, as a matter of fact most people don’t love consultants, mm-hmm Yes and this one person, said one thing to me that’s always changed, you know and they said solve something, that’s got a really big price tag, and the world will beat a path to your door, mm-hmm and I’ve always taken that away because, you know when challenging my little team of twelve you know we’re not solving the problem here, mm-hmm where we’re just doing another recommendation we’re not helping them implement, and it constantly redefines you know like if we’re not actually solving something, you know we’ll go away. yeah, for sure yeah, so those are like you pick up the little pearls by, just kind of you know engaging in dialogue, so I love the podcast I also love the dialogue that you wish you could ask the podcaster, like you wish you could right now stop let’s go deeper right. Laurent: Yeah yeah very perfect well I’ll add those books and podcasts through the, to the show notes afterwards. This has been great, is there any other recommendations you have for budding entrepreneurs especially those individuals that might be thinking about going at it on their own, currently at a day job, but aren’t too sure yet that’s what they want to commit to. Bruce: Yeah so they have lots of it, but you know and a lot of times, you know, having done this a long time people come to, come to me and I literally have a life cycle of, you know, like you’re gonna start here, and you’re gonna give yourself a job, mm-hmm right like that’s not a company, it really isn’t an entrepreneur, what you’re really doing, is giving yourself a job, that has some flexibility that you get a say in it and so on and so forth. And that may earn you the right to be an expert, and to study, and to get better at and learn, so that you can incrementally contribute more. My biggest one that I like, if I sit, if you and I were on our third beer of the night, and we were, I think people shouldn’t wait, I think people are on this well you were, you know we’re on this one way, we’re on this one way to bog and ride, and you don’t get to go back, you’re gonna go over a bump, and we know what the end of this thing looks like, they’ll go to, so we literally all go to the same spot, and we stop at the same spot, big cliff, well, yeah but I think that it’s, you know for me, you know, people doing something like people say follow your passion, and I think that’s a little bit of, like a good starting point, but my coaching is always don’t wait. mm-hmm right, like you can be an entrepreneur, and you see a lot of people, like luron like people who are entrepreneurs doing something really really and fantastic, you know at a large company, who one day say, I’ve got this, and I could do this for somebody else. So, you’re literally practicing your, you know, entrepreneurship, you know study group while you’re you know while you’re doing your full time job. And then I think you start to be able to say, you know, I could do this for somebody, alright, I think waiting for the great idea, or for a really unique idea is one way to think about it, yeah, but the other one is I’m doing this incredible catalytic work, for a large company, to get something big to change and happen, mm-hmm… actually, I think I could put a brand, and you know, a shingle out, I could do this for someone else. Laurent: I think it and I gotta save the entrepreneurs that I’ve interviewed, whether on this show or separately, the ones I’ve had the easiest transition, who knew the customers are gonna go after the one, who knew the operational requirements that they had to put in place, were the ones that just took something that they were familiar with, and turned it into their their entrepreneurial gig. You’re absolutely right, and it was actually impressive to see some of the people that had started from zero, and how quickly they brought revenue in the door, because for them it was just, so they’re doing my day job over here at this firm, I’m doing this my day job over here on my kitchen table. Bruce: Totally, totally. And in many cases, you can, you can white label something you’re doing for somebody else, you’re getting paid to become an expert, and that’s the first step that you bingo bango Bungo get to be able to solve something that’s, you know, I always come back to. what do you, what are you solving, does it have a price tag? mm-hmm Right, and so I love that, I love that advice that, that you recognize, because I think we’re all waiting for this creative divine intervention from, you know, the next Airbnb or the next goober. I think in many cases it’s just recognizing the pattern from what I’m around every day, and saying, actually you know, this vegan restaurant here could, you know, work way up north somewhere and, you know, all of a sudden I’m in an entrepreneur running my own establishment, so yeah, absolutely yeah, I think it’s I think you’re working on your, on your next gig while you’re, you know, doing this one. Laurent: Make sense, make sense. Perfect, well I can’t thank you enough, this was awesome advice. I got a couple of books to read apparently after I get off here, I’m very much looking forward to it the impact that a couple those meetings with work had on me was profound. And it changed my view of the importance of tribes, my network, and just people I help, like entrepreneurship does not need to be lonely, does not need to be something where you’re reinventing the wheel, like you said when we started off, and actually it was a big reason why I wanted to have you on, because it made a difference already. And I’m looking forward to continuing our relationship, and the group that I, that I met while I was there… Bruce: Awesome, awesome well thank you for, I obviously feel very passionate about it, and it’s having spawned several different versions and contributed in different, in different formats, I think you know, you’re attracted to something that resonates for you, and I’m glad that verdict core and, and that you know, the time we spent together, resonated for you to come back. Laurent: Perfect, Bruce if somebody wants to get a hold of you, what is the best way for them to do so? Bruce: You can find me on LinkedIn, you know, switchgear.ca, proudly.ca, and certainly you can look me up if somebody wants to find me. Sounds good, Bruce thank you so much for your time, I appreciate it. Bruce: Laurent thanks been a lot of fun. Laurent: All right, have a great one. Bruce: Take care, bye bye. OUTRO: Thank you for joining us on this episode of the mad prophet podcast, we hope you enjoyed the show, don’t forget to subscribe on iTunes, Google Play or the listening platform of your choice also check us out at MadX Capital.com for more useful information and resources to help you achieve your investing entrepreneurial and business goals. See you next week on the mad profit podcast. |